(05-17-2024, 01:45 AM)mvossman Wrote: I think Caruso can handle big wings better than you would think.  I don't think you would be giving up much versatility.  And as great as a defensive player DJJ is, I think he has a fairly negative impact on the other side of the ball.  I know you have been frustrated in the past with our limited spacing, and having both PJ and DJJ in the starting lineup is a big part of that problem.  

Plus, it would be really nice to have DJJ come off the bench as our primary backup forward.

(05-17-2024, 01:50 AM)mvossman Wrote: I am generally very pro defensive players, partially because a year ago we hardly had any, but sending out Timmy for Thybulle might be overkill.  Where I think DJJ straddles the line of being a real negative offensively, Thybulle is well over it.

(05-17-2024, 01:02 AM)F Gump Wrote: I think you're sleeping on Exum. There's a lot of recency bias on him in these discussions (not just you), and I am in the opposite camp. It wasn't so long ago that he was seen here as the IDEAL 3rd guard to rotate with Luka and Kyrie, because of his skills, his improved shooting, and his defense.

He got injured. While he's healed enough to play, I am guessing he's still a bit hobbled, impacting his effectiveness and shooting in the moment. And now he's seen as yesterdays news, readily discardable.

But I'm guessing the Mavs see him through a different lens than right now, and rightly so. In addition, I suspect that he will at some point again look like the guy we thought was the ideal 3rd guard.

If the Mavs trade THJ for Caruso (which is far from a given, of course, but sticking with the scenario), I find the DS concept valueless. Won't miss THJ. Won't wish we had someone like him. Will be comfortable if the shots are spread around, with multiple players who can hit a 3. Thinking PJW might be even better next year, and need to shoot more, making it all moot (as there's only 1 ball). Will be glad to have plenty of defenders and both-end players at all times, rather than adding matadors.

One other note in general - because of the hard cap issue re Mavs overall payroll, if they are working on a path to more salary for DJJ, those final minimum salary slots will have to either go to players on pure one-year deals, or to players who are rookie, or entering 2nd or 3rd year. Otherwise the minimum salary uses up more of the room under the hard cap, of which they might be needing every bit they can get. The point being, players who are outside those limits probably won't end up on their radar because of the payroll impact. Gotta keep their eye on the target -- DJJ.

(05-17-2024, 01:31 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I might have been right there with you two months ago, but I actually think DJJ is a better POA defender. I think he’s good enough at it to where you’d be giving up some of your defensive versatility with Caruso. 

Before this season, I wouldn’t have thought DJJ could handle that role consistently, but with so many big ball handlers in the league right now, he ends up there more often than not, and he can even keep up with some of the smaller guys, which is great, because he smothers them with his length. But, he gives you the option of moving him off of the ball where he can still wreck havoc in situations wherein Luka is able to handle one of the guards.

If you switch him out for Caruso, you are stuck with Caruso on a backcourt player whether they are good enough to justify using your best defender on them or not. This leaves Dončić stuck guarding threes and fours all the time, even when they are Paul George types. Trust me, I get that there’s an argument to be made about the offensive benefits of Caruso. A couple of months ago, I would have thought exactly as you are, wanting to get quicker and thinking of Luka more overtly as a forward. 

Idk… watching this defensive length that Dallas has working is winning me over. I am very close to just accepting and believing, finally, that Jones Jr is a special defensive player and the perfect fit on this team. I just think he gives you options that Caruso wouldn’t, matchup wise.

I would be thrilled to have Caruso as the third guard behind Dončić and Kyrie Irving, but again, I think his britches are a little bigger than that.

(05-16-2024, 04:37 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: If Schroeder and Kleber can get over their beef, I think THJ for Schroeder would be a decent deal for the Mavs. You create the extra space to re-sign DJJ and you get the needed 3rd ballhandler that you know won´t shrink in the big moments.

(05-17-2024, 02:48 AM)Dundalis Wrote: DJJ was a solid but not particularly elite defender when he's your primary do it all wing defensive piece, but when you lock him into a role next to essentially a bigger version of himself and consistent rim protection throughout the game, all of a sudden his defensive performance takes a big leap. He couldn't make a mistake before, now he can and someone else erases it. All his strengths as a defender are amplified.

(05-17-2024, 05:12 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: I think the biggest problem with Schroeder is his shooting and off-ball play.

If we are targeting a guard i would much rather ask about Tyus Jones.

Caruso is probably too expensive.

(05-17-2024, 07:10 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I expect Hardaway to be moved but there is a case to be made that it is best to keep him around as an expiring contract at the trade deadline.  Especially if interest in him is weak.  Mva have been willing to move him the past two seasons.  I expect they had ver minimal interest.  What happens if you still need to give up an asset or take back a lesser longer non desirable contract.  Would it be keep him?  Treat him like Evan Fournier in NYC.

I think he is moved.  I also don’t think there will be many teams anxious to jump on him though.

(05-17-2024, 01:51 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Oh, for some reason, I thought your scenario was an either/or with Caruso/DJJ. Sorry, it has been a long day.

Yeah, I am a fan of Caruso the player. I obviously would like him to be on the team if there were an easy path. I guess I’m just not as sure as you that switching him out with Jones, even just in the starting lineup, what have the impact necessary to justify giving up ANOTHER distant future first. I really don’t like the idea of pissing away more picks. I think I’d rather just find out what the team will look like, as is, only with a training camp and a few more months together before I did anything like that.

Don’t get me wrong, there are probably moves that would tempt me to give up a pick over the summer, I just don’t have that vibe on Caruso at the moment, personally, but I also think it would take more than one pick to snag him. We have been saying for years that the Mavericks are running out of assets to trade, and while I feel they have stretched their meager war chest astonishingly far, at some point, our worries will be valid. Anyway, part of my pushback is that I just really don’t think Hardaway and one first rounder gets it done.

But sure – in a perfect world, Caruso is a player I would love to have on the team.

(05-17-2024, 02:48 AM)Dundalis Wrote: The way Gafford and PJ have not just played, but also allowed other players like DJJ to lock into place has been something to see. DJJ was a solid but not particularly elite defender when he's your primary do it all wing defensive piece, but when you lock him into a role next to essentially a bigger version of himself and consistent rim protection throughout the game, all of a sudden his defensive performance takes a big leap. He couldn't make a mistake before, now he can and someone else erases it. All his strengths as a defender are amplified. Same with PJ locking into this lineup when you look at his defense vs his defense with the Hornets. Yeah he might be more motivation playing for us, but it's more than that, his defensive strengths are significantly amplified playing with DJJ and Lively/Gafford vs playing with less ideal defensive fits. Obviously when players play with better fits offensively or defensively, their performance increases, but it's just almost unbelievable the size of the improvement. I'd be interested to know how often a team goes from a near bottom 5 defense to a top 5 defense within the confines of the same season over as significant a sample size. It's got to be a pretty rare occurrence.

(05-17-2024, 01:45 AM)mvossman Wrote: I think Caruso can handle big wings better than you would think.  I don't think you would be giving up much versatility.  And as great as a defensive player DJJ is, I think he has a fairly negative impact on the other side of the ball.  I know you have been frustrated in the past with our limited spacing, and having both PJ and DJJ in the starting lineup is a big part of that problem.  

Plus, it would be really nice to have DJJ come off the bench as our primary backup forward.

(05-17-2024, 09:16 AM)Branduil Wrote: A "shooter" who shoots 35% on threes, has no other skills and plays no defense is not getting the MLE. Unless he dramatically turns things around next season he'll be lucky to get taxpayer MLE money

(05-17-2024, 09:32 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: This view is ignoring what was pointed out earlier - a significant part of retaining DJJ on the cheap is role. The Mavs don't likely get to do that if their proposal is to bring him off the bench, which brings it back to the either/or.

(05-17-2024, 09:05 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: …which brings up an interesting question: 

What will Timmy’s next contract look like? MLE? Tax-MLE? Vet min?

We had a similar discussion about Christian Wood. Several people believed he would get a substantial, over-MLE contract. But in the end, it was vet min.

I’ll go out on a limb and predict somewhere between MLE and Tax-MLE. The NBA still places a higher value on offense than defense. And he’s a positive in the locker room, good for team chemistry.

(05-17-2024, 09:14 AM)mvossman Wrote: I'm both on the fence whether we should trade a first this offseason, and on the fence whether it should be for a DJJ upgrade or a Timmy upgrade.  If we make it past OKC (and I think we will) I think we are going to find in our next series that we are not at the level of true contender yet (although I am really surprised how much trouble Denver is having with Minn).

(05-17-2024, 09:05 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: …which brings up an interesting question: 

What will Timmy’s next contract look like? MLE? Tax-MLE? Vet min?

We had a similar discussion about Christian Wood. Several people believed he would get a substantial, over-MLE contract. But in the end, it was vet min.

I’ll go out on a limb and predict somewhere between MLE and Tax-MLE. The NBA still places a higher value on offense than defense. And he’s a positive in the locker room, good for team chemistry.